Are you a fan of Cards Against Humanity? Do you love to debate? Then you may love this new game courtesy of TV Personality Josh Saleh.
Disclaimer: Please be aware that this article and the game described contain profanity that may not be well-suited for children sixteen and younger. Proceed with caution.
A few months ago, I attended a small game convention called StratigiCon for fun, not as a representative of The Game of Nerds. While exploring what the convention offered, I had the pleasure of stumbling across a new game I had never heard of. After chatting with the game creator, Josh Saleh, I played a few rounds, debated with complete strangers, and bought a copy. Once I got the game home, I arranged a game night with friends. They loved the game, so I arranged an interview with Josh a few weeks after StratigiCon. Keep reading to learn what inspired Change My Mind and made it a roaring success!
What inspired Change My Mind?
Josh Saleh: I have loved board games my entire life. I own seventy-plus board games. I never thought I would create one, but last year, I was driving back from the Bay Area listening to this podcast ranking Marvel movies, and I love it when people rank stuff. People have such strong opinions, and it becomes a fun debate. I was listening to this podcast and thought, ‘Is there a game where you can rank really fun topics?’ but didn’t think much of it. ‘I’m sure it exists somewhere.’ That night, on January 1st, I couldn’t fall asleep because this idea wouldn’t leave my mind, so I started Googling ‘Is there a rank game that exists?’ Yes, there are a few rank games, but the one thing these games lacked was dirty, crazy humor that I like and a debate mechanic. I was like, ‘How do none of these rank games allow people to yell at each other?’ When ranking, you want to get in debates and say, ‘You’re absolutely wrong.’
I decided to write two hundred fifty and see what happens. I wrote two hundred and fifty cards in two days. I loved Cards Against Humanity in college. I love that kind of humor, where you’re like, ‘Did I really just read that out loud?’ If I can recreate that dirty humor and ranking stuff you never wanted to rank, that’s something. I printed two hundred fifty cards that were very basic black and white, Cards Against Humanity style. In February, we played it, and everyone playing was like, ‘What the **** is this? What’s going on? Who thought of these things? How do I buy this?’ Meanwhile, I was like, ‘Wow, this is an actual game because now you’re bringing in the humor from Cards Against Humanity, but you’re adding an entirely new mechanic that lets create inside jokes that leave the table.”
What prompted you to fund Change My Mind via Kickstarter?
Josh Saleh: I did A LOT of research last year. I reached out to many party game designers who used Kickstarter and asked what worked for them and what didn’t. Kickstarter fees are a big indicator of whether you can afford it. If you go through the marketing round, do you hire someone else to promote your game? I weighed the pros and cons. No one knows who I am in the board game industry, so what can I do to bring this to people’s attention and not take a huge financial hit? Kickstarters are essentially your preorders, and I wouldn’t know what number to order without Kickstarter. If I designed this game and printed a thousand copies, and now I’m stuck with a thousand copies, how do I market this? So Kickstarter was a way for me to step into the board game industry, and what was great is everyone loves an underdog story. Everyone loves a “Hey, where did this game come from? What’s the story? And then, unless there’s a journey, there’s a track you can follow, where you can go back and click on the Kickstarter page and see what happened. It’s just like, I will bring up cards against me a lot. They started in 2011. They made $15,000 on Kickstarter and now make 25 to $50 million a year. But to see that, like that journey from people, I think, is really powerful. And people want to root for games like that.
Did you anticipate Change My Mind becoming so popular with your game funded within less than sixty-nine hours?
Josh Saleh: That’s a great question. I like to joke for under 69 hours because everyone wants to make it like, oh, we hit it in under four minutes. We ended in under one hour. I was like, Well, I’m gonna make I’m gonna make fun of this. And we went to Gen Con; I went to Gen Con with a friend, Ben Winger. And we just handed out a ton of marketing materials, little envelopes that had cards inside that people could rank and like, be like, What am I reading? and the Lorcana line at GenCon was like, 1000 people deep from 3 am all the way to like 4 pm. So we just every day went through the Lorcana line; hey, you’re gonna be here in line for a while? Do you want to play a game while you’re waiting? And just handed out little envelopes to people? And I think about, I want to say, 100 to 200 people, maybe less, maybe more, notified me on Kickstarter and ended up backing the game.
From there, at night at Gen Con, the hotels are just massive big player bases with over 100 tables that everyone uses. Before you get into the room of the 100 tables, there’s this little lobby area. I moved all these tables and chairs into the front of that lobby area so that people had to walk by those areas to get into the room of the board game tables, and so I got people to play right in front, and so people are yelling out, you know the craziest dirtiest thing. And like all this stuff. But you know, just yelling out crazy obscenities. And everyone’s walking by, like, what? What do they say? What is going on? Then, people would like to sit and play.
The great thing about this game is that you can teach it in under 60 seconds. And so you’re like, hey, just play one card, see what you think. And they go, Alright, alright, you got me for 60 seconds, and then they’ll stay for five cards or 30 minutes will go by, and they’re like, What the hell? Where did my time go? So, did Gen Con really propel the Kickstarter forward? Did I imagine this to hit $16,000? Honestly, I don’t know. It was a dream. I felt we’d hit 10k, and I felt that 10k was a good hit number to hit. I did not anticipate where it went. And a lot of people would debate, saying, Well, you know, 16k is nothing and a Kickstarter board game mentality. But I don’t know. I think it’s really good. And I’m really proud of it.
Would you describe Change My Mind as a game for everyone?
Josh Saleh: Yes and no. There’s a 17-year-old remarking on the box. So, I can’t recommend it for all ages. It’s up to the discretion of the parents or people buying this game. But one thing I don’t want people needing to do is buy two different versions; money is hard to come by. And if you have to buy two different versions of the game, that’s ridiculous. In my opinion, I did a lot of research on board games, and you really see when a dirty version comes out, they’re like, oh, we should make a family-friendly version. And that doesn’t do as well because they were known by the dirty version. So I didn’t want people to buy two copies. And as long as you put a marking on the box and put a marking on the cards so that parents can remove them, I think it’s great. At StratigiCon, where we met, I was shocked at how many parents bought the game, they would, they would have, and we’d have a Disney and Pixar card on the table. So, kids would go to Disney movies, and they would start debating and talking about it. And parents would be like, I’ve never seen my kids, you know, talk so much about this and rank it. And now, this is a really cool way for me to connect with them differently.
Then, I would tell the parents about the age warning. This is a 17 or older game; let me just show you some of the cards, you know, privately. So I’d hand them a deck, and they would read it, and they would start laughing and be like, Oh my God, this game is incredibly dirty. I can not only have my kids play this, but then when they go to sleep, and I want to like to play with my friends, I can play the adult version. So I think giving people an option and a choice in the same box is really, really important because you’re not buying two different copies for $30 each. You’re buying one. And I think that only shows that you know we’re all adults; you can separate the cards if you need to. Why? Why make people buy two copies? So I really wanted this to be as wide a reach as possible. However, it also needed to think of virality and how to make this game memorable. This game is memorable because of the lack of family-friendly cards. Yes. We love to debate Disney movies. Yes, we’d love to debate what should go on a pizza. But how this game is memorable is the dirty cards that you’re going to think about for weeks and weeks, weeks to come. And that’s how you make, in my opinion, a game that’s never going to be forgotten.
What would you argue is the great appeal of this game?
Josh Saleh: The debate mechanic that has been overdone so many times in party games is the apples to apples, the Cards Against Humanity, and the What do you meme, and that’s it. There’s no talking; there’s no discussion. There’s that you laugh at the jokes that are already on the board. And that’s it. What I think this game does differently than a lot of other games is it allows people to have a voice at the table and allows you to kind of get into a fun debate, a fun way of discussing and yelling at your friends. It opens that up because we’ve yelled at our friends for the most ridiculous things, like I can’t believe you’re putting pineapple on pizza. No, you’re ridiculous. I love pineapple on pizza, and I’ve been told that multiple times.
And so being able to have a discussion and a debate that’s not about politics. It’s not about economics and our downfall as a civilization because all debates now I kind of go into that vein of sadness and negativity. It’s very rare that we’ve been having debates that don’t have the kind of invitation of, wow, we’re getting into like politics. But when you go to like the nerdy side of life, the comic books, the anime, the video games, those of the debates that are so much fun and are so good, because there’s no personal stakes at it, you know, people have their opinion, that’s it, you move on, it’s fine. You’re like, Okay, you have that. I have this, and then you add that dirty element to it, and it takes it a whole new level.
So, to answer your question, what this game does differently, or the appeal, is that you get to be the voice of your own game, you get to control the winning, if you want to be able to change someone’s mind or not. And it’s a way to keep an open mind. A lot of people that play this game are more on the strategic side. They kind of have a problem with this because they’re like, wait a second, I don’t want to change my mind. Like, I don’t want to move. Like, I totally get that. Do you? You know, if you want to flagpole it onto that hill, do it. But just now, there’s no incentive not to have an open mind. Like why not? Why would you not be open about it and have a fun discourse on it? So giving players a voice and giving players the ability to create their own inside jokes. And it’s not forcing people to be funny, like Cards Against Humanity. You read a card, and you’re like, Well, I have to read this. It’s funny. You are now the controller of your own creativity of your own humor.
Can fans expect Change My Mind expansion packs?
Josh Saleh: They absolutely can. It’s up to the sales numbers. However, I have over 500 cards written and multiple expansion ideas. The first one I’m working on right now is the 69 pack. So it’s gonna be 69 new cards for the first expansion, and there’ll be, again, NSFW cards mixed with family-friendly cards. We have themed expansions, which I don’t want to go into just yet. Because I want to ensure that I can hire the right people for those voices. As a straight white man, I can’t write for, you know, different backgrounds, different cultures, and I want to make sure I hire the right people that can bring those rankings and debates that I don’t know about. So I really want to make sure I got those I’s and cross those T’s and get those people first before I announce anything else. But yeah, the plan is to make infinite expansions.
You could even go a step further, which we thought of as one of two ways: making an educational version where you’re trying to teach kids how to debate. And that’s completely family-friendly, and you’re working with schools. The other one is you can work with law firms and help lawyers learn how to debate up-and-coming lawyers. So there are so many different avenues for this. Another wonderful thing I want to try is to make an app version.
Where can fans find this game sold nowadays?
Josh Saleh: Yeah, so we sell it on our website. We sell it on Amazon and at conventions. We’re going to be at PAX West this year. We’re going to be at Arizona Fan Fusion. We’re going to be at Gen Con, but we don’t have a booth because booths sold out in November, and we didn’t have the game yet. So we’ll be at Gen Con handing out more marketing materials that people can order on Amazon, too. And then we’ll be at, I think, a few other conventions here and there. But yeah, our website it’s the number one place that we would love you to buy it, but obviously, Prime shipping is so sweet.
From concept to construction, what has bringing this game to life meant to you?
Josh Saleh: Oh, so I love reactions. I love people’s laughter. I love people’s like, Oh my God, what did I really like? I was always that that friend in the friend group who was like, How much money to do this? Would you rather do this? Or would you rather do that? So, I took all of my weird Brain Stuff. And I put it into a game. A lot of my friends from college and growing up were like, Oh, my God, this is you in a box. And so what I’ve learned from this from conception to now reality is, every time I play this, it’s always different. It’s not like a game where it’s gonna be the same type; it’s the same way to play the same, you’re gonna do the same thing over and over again, every new person you play with has a different opinion, a different rank.
And it’s so funny to say, “Okay, I just played with these three people. Now I’ll do the same card with these new three people, for sure. They will rank it like the last three people did because that was a pretty sound argument.” Then you do that, and you realize it is completely different. You’re like, oh, my gosh, like what? Like, I thought for sure you would think the same with those other three people. So every single time you play it, it’s new; you’re learning something new about people. Then the best part about it is that it is based on the cards. What happens is that people start telling stories about their lives. Yeah. And that is what I love the most. I was playing with someone, and they drew the worst place-to-die card. And it was at a concert. Travis Scott’s concert was on the card because two years ago, someone passed away at that concert. And so someone was like, I was at a concert, and I thought it was gonna die and brought me this whole story of how they were in this mosh pit, and I was like, Oh, my goodness, and we’d never have known this if it wasn’t for that card. So, all of these stories start coming out that you would never have heard, and that kind of brings it back into people’s minds. And it’s just a bonus.
What would you say to aspiring game designers?
Josh Saleh: I’m still an aspiring game designer, and I’m still learning a lot. But I’ve seen a lot of people in this industry who make a game that love it. And they sign the first thing that comes across their table, and they give away their game, or they sign a really bad percentage deal with somebody. And now they’re taking a hit on the income. Or people jump right into this, not knowing that you’re starting a business and you need a lot of savings. You need a lot of money to propel this. So my biggest piece of advice is that it’s great that you made a game, so follow that dream. But just make sure you know this is also a business. There’s also an E-commerce side to this, and make sure you do the research and understanding of that because it’s not just a creative endeavor; you’re creating a brand for yourself; you’re creating a world for consumers who don’t know you to buy your game. And if you spend 15 To 20 to $25,000 on a business, which is understandable and, depending on what you’re doing, pretty aligned. Just know that you might not get that money back for three or four years. So, just know what you’re getting yourself into. And it’s very easy to get caught up in the creative board game element and not be like, wait a second, where’s How am I going to pay rent? So, just make sure you have that base. Because once you have that base, you can do so much more and take bigger risks than people who don’t.
Is there anything else you want our readers to know about you and your game?
Josh Saleh: I would like to know if readers are playing the game, what their favorite cards are, what rankings they chose, what card they have, and what the biggest reaction they gave us is. Obviously, you can tag us on social at Change My Mind whenever you play it. We would love, love, love to see that reposted. Seeing people play this game and seeing their reactions is what brings us joy, and it brings me joy. And it keeps me going. So yeah, we make games. Why make games for the community and for people to connect? Seeing your connection with your friends gives us a stronger connection. So that’s what I love.
Are you looking for a new game to play with family and friends? Click here to purchase a copy of Change My Mind. Although some cards are family-friendly, please remember that this game is for ages 17+. Have fun, and have a happy National Board Game Day!
